Before I get started with explaining whats happened between myself and Banquet Records, I would like to say that I know I'm not the first person this sort of thing has happened to and I won't be the last. I'm sure this won't even be the last time this happens to me.
The second thing I'd like to say is if you don't know me or haven't had any dealings with me when it comes to photos and photography but I hope this is something that comes across in my blog. I love taking photos, I love going to gigs and I'm not in this to get paid. I do it because of how it makes me feel. I don't watermark my photos and I try not to be too protective over them. I want people to see my images. I happily give bands, performers and venues my photos if they ask for them. It means a lot when someone wants to use my photos. I've turned down paid jobs because I don't believe my photos are worth the money. Most people I've given my photos to credit me or link back to my website/flickr/blog. This is all I want but by the same token I don't want people to take the piss and walk all over for me.
A couple of months ago I found that Banquet Records had used one of my Gallows photos for a poster to promote a Gallows gig they were putting on. I sent them an email and asked for a copy of the poster. Although I wasn't overly happy they had used the image without asking but it was Gallows so I was happy to see a poster with my image on.
At the start of August, Gallows were playing another show which was put on by Banquet Records and I saw when buying tickets that not only had they used another photo of mine (without asking) on this new poster but they were also selling copies.
I emailed them again and said that I wasn't happy about this being used again without permission and that I thought the selling of the poster was going a bit to far.
They sent me a few emails saying sorry and that they weren't making money on the posters, they were doing it for the fans and as something to take away. After a few emails back and forth I got them to add my name and website onto the poster and thought this would be the last of it. I could have demanded money or demanded the poster be taken down and not sold but what was the point? At least people were seeing my name on the poster.
I bought tickets for the show and they arrived on Saturday and inside there was a flyer for a Banquet Records run club night (New Noise) which had the same image on as the one used for the second poster. I felt like the fact that this was the third usage of one of my photos without asking was just going too far and felt like I was being walked over.
I emailed them and said...
I hate the fact that I'm having to write this email again but I just received my Gallows ticket and inside the envelope was a flyer for New Slang which has my photo on it (the same one used on the Peel gig poster) which once again has been used without my permission.
If the flyer was made before I emailed and complained then I feel let down by the fact you failed to mention that you'd used it more than once (are there any more instances of this image being used?). If those flyers are printed again I want the same credit line from the poster added to them.
If the flyer was made after I emailed, how could the same mistake happen again?
I am happy for you to use my photos if you let me know what they are being used for and ask permission (as well as provide credit).
If one of my photos is used again without my permission then I will take this matter further.
I don't think I've said anything wrong in this email but again, as this was the third usage without permission, I felt like I needed to say that if it happened a fourth time that I wouldn't just roll over and let it slide.
These were the two emails I received from different staff at Banquet records...
The New Noise flyers have rotating images at the top and are used for maybe a few weeks at a time when there is a memorable show that's appropriate for the club night. These were made the week after the show, long before you mailed originally. I've made so many variations of this flyer and they are such a small deal that I wouldn't have even thought about mentioning it. If it ended up in your ticket order it's probably just because the mail order flyers are the more out of date ones. I'm pretty sure it's not the one we're currently using but as I say...I do so many and they're used for such a short amount of time I don't know.
The poster was amended with the credit and hasn't been printed without it since.
As your last line suggests you will take further measures if this happens again...well obviously that won't happen again as we won't use any of the pics. We'll re-do the flyer tomorrow (when I'm actually at work, it's my day off right now). Also although as the photographer you do own the copyright to the image itself - on the same token the subjects of the photo have as much right to tell you you can't use it / profit from it unless you were issued a photo pass or given permission. The band were stoked on the pictures as it was one of their favourite ever shows and that's why they were used.
We simply do not have the time to go through every picture and credit it, which is why we have our own photographers at a lot of these events. As much as I appreciate you're just standing up for your art it will only serve to restrict the ability for anyone to bring cameras to shows in the future without approval / being issued a photo pass in advance, which is obviously not something we want to do.
And I mean jeeze, this would be different if we were Live Nation or any of those multi-national corporate promoters (who will have lots of small print about photos, model release stuff) but I mean...what exactly would be the point in taking anything further, If you want the broken chair with no back or the recycled garden furniture...sorry, workstation I use in our office you're welcome to it... :)
As I said, we will remove the photo and use the official one for the tour ASAP. Obviously we can't do anything about the ones that are already in circulation.
and...
Hi Derek
Yeah, just want to re-iterate what **** said really.
First off, genuinely sorry that you’re pissed about it… but as Dave said this flyer was done long before that Gallows Peel show poster was done. . You were probably sent a NN flyer with Frank Gallows on specifically because you’d ordered a Gallows ticket. Other than that, this flyer isn’t in ‘ciruclation’ as such. We have, for years, used different images on an otherwise generic New Noise flyer. Recently there’s been some sick shows at the cocks, and its to show that off and celebrate it... Currently we’re using the New Found Glory picture here http://www.banquetrecords.com/NewNoise
I wasn’t at that cocks show as I was at a stag do. And maybe this is why something wasn’t clear at the time, but the general gentlemen’s agreement we have is that if we’re letting someone use a camera, at New Slang, at The Cocks, at anywhere we do shows, then they’ll always let us use the pictures for promo on our site etc. I really don’t know what to do about all this. Its left a bad taste in my mouth about why people would want to take photos at our shows. Shows that, in more cases than not lose us money. Punk shows, by punks for punks. The whole ethic seems to be missing through the tone of the ‘taking this matter further’ comment. As I said last time this came up (which is the same issue for us, but understandably not for you), I don’t want to get to a point where we have to make people with good cameras (does an i-phone count?) sign contracts for release of photos… Do we ban cameras entirely? I dunno.
But yeah, both Dave and I failed to inform you of a flyer that was created about 2 months ago, as, quite honestly, we have other stuff going on in a day we have to deal with. We should have told you and for not doing so I’m sorry. But that’s about it.
It wont happen again, and I wish we’d never had that Gallows show for the hassles a poster and flyer has caused
I found both their responses to be rude and disrespectful considering they were in the wrong. I found the fact they have said in several emails that they are to busy to ask photographers if it's OK to use their images. It's just bad practice as a company and a designer and I think it's quite unprofessional. I know quite a few designers who would never do this as it could get them in serious trouble.
I found the last line about how he wished he hadn't put on the Gallows show because of the hassle I've caused to be both rude to myself and the band.
I don't like the fact that they think that because they don't have a camera policy at the gigs they put that it automatically gives them to the right to use photos without permission. I don't understand how you can have a 'gentleman's agreement' without actually agreeing it with photographers.
I really didn't feel like I was going to get any further with them through emails and just felt all that would happen would be that we'd carry on arguing. I emailed back to make sure they were aware that I thought they were being rude and disrespectful.
This was the reply I got...
Hey
Leaving aside the fact I find the talk of ‘taking this further’ also disrespectful against one of Gallows’ biggest supporters over the last decade, I’m sorry you feel this way.
Like I said below, genuinely sorry you’re pissed and sorry we both forgot that those NN flyers were even made
The irony is that we do all this stuff to please music fans such as you…
Nothing has been done with that image since the first email, and it wont be at any point again.
Up until now I've always said good things about Banquet Records and had a lot of respect for them as they've put on good shows and seemed like one of the good guys. I don't think they've acted like it in this situation.
I'm a big Gallows fan and the last thing I want to do is cause trouble for them. I am always grateful of the opportunities they have given me. If I have annoyed you guys or you would prefer that I don't take photos of your band I'll understand. I just want to be treated fairly.
I'm not sure what I would like to happen from all this. I feel like they don't really get where they've gone wrong and I feel uncomfortable at the idea of photographing any of shows now because they've made me feel like I'm the bad guy for complaining and wanting some credit/acknowledge/respect. Not money. I'm not trying to screw the shop over.
If I've done or said something wrong or handled this situation badly then please feel free to let me know Hopefully some other photographers can learn something from this as well as maybe some bands, record labels and venues.
Asking a photographer for permission doesn't take much and a little bit of effort to credit photographers goes a long way.
Thank you my friends and other photographers who have been very supportive on Facebook and Twitter.
Posts
